Fletcher/Biard conflict
From Bill Vickrey:
In most of the disputes I saw over 25 years as a CEO in the business world, I found there were two sides to virtually every dispute. I consider my friend John Lundstrom to be one of the two or three top researches of world war two history and to be among the very top writers of that era. However, he seems to give Biard almost no recognition for possibly being right on his interpretations of what he had in hand.
I knew Tex quite well – and considered him a real friend. I spent most of one day at his dining room table - with a tape recorder – while he explained JN-25 to me. I have not shared this document on JN-25 with the world but only with a select few. One thing I am convinced of is that the brilliant but hard headed Biard knew what he was talking about at the Coral Sea. He was not right – however – in not being patient and outgoing with Fletcher. He utterly failed in recognizing Fletcher’s “right to know all” in this situation. Maybe – just maybe – the Coral Sea battle would have turned out more favorably for the U. S. had Biard been open with Fletcher – and had Fletcher believed Biard under the existing circumstances.
Bill Vickrey
Editors Note: Biard's explanation of JN-25 would be an interesting read sometime if you're so inclined. I have always thought Fletcher being a non-aviator in command of the carrier forces rubbed many the wrong way, especially after losing Lexington at Coral Sea. Could be Biard was also not a fan of the Navy's decision in that regard.
From Bill Vickrey:
Most of the aviators did not like the idea of a non-aviator being in command of a task force which included carriers. I do not know the date, but the rule – well before WW II started - (I think by Congressional edict) was that only a Naval Aviator could command a carriers and a Naval Air Station. That is the reason King, Halsey and many others became “Johnny Come Latelies” - usually known as JCL’s. As time moved on Admiral King, mandated that if a non-aviator commanded a task force his Chief of Staff had to be an aviator and vice versa.
Fletcher did not have a Naval Aviator on his flag staff. Commander Murr Arnold was the Air Officer on YORKTOWN and Fletcher – to his credit – called on Commander Arnold – YORKTOWN’s Air Officer - and the CAG – Lieutenant Commander Oscar Pederson - for advice on air matters but both these men were very busy with their own duties. Captain Buckmaster had mandated that Pete would not fly during combat at Coral Sea nor at Midway. Pete was still bitching about this the last time I saw him. BTW, Rear Admiral Pederson lived about 50-60 miles from us and we visited him several times. Commander Arnold got his wings on 24 April 1926 and Pederson got his on 5 March 1930.
On the other hand, Captain Elliott Buckmaster (CO of YORKTOWN) – it is reported that he was the last of the JCL’s – and got his wings as a Commander on 21 May 1937. Commander Dixie Kiefer – YORKTOWN’s XO - was also a Naval Aviator but I cannot find the date he got his wings other that he got them in the 1920’s so he was not a JCL.
Mitscher was actually a Rear Admiral (as of 01 June 1942) and was Naval Aviator #33 having gotten his wings on 2 December 1917. It was too late to make a change for Midway so he was a Rear Admiral commanding a carrier...the only case I know of as such but there were probably others.
Spruance, on the other hand, was not a Naval Aviator but had inherited Halsey’s staff intact and it was loaded with Naval Aviators including Miles Browning who was Chief of Staff....I read one report that Browning “had the mind of slide rule and the personality of a snapping turtle.”
When World War II started, the Navy only had two non JCL flag officers on active duty – John Towers (#3 – 14 December 14 September 1918) and Patrick Bellinger (#8 – date ?).
Walter Schindler and Harry Smith were the only two members of Fletcher’s staff with whom I had any contact.
Editors Note: Thanks. Good info. I have Patrick Bellinger getting his wings in 1912. I'm not quite sure when the hierarchy of command was mandated but do know that many got their wings to command carriers when that regulation was installed. I think early in the war the fleet or operational commander was not under the same restrictions leading to some being in command by seniority alone, i.e. Fletcher.
From Barrett Tillman:
IIRC the requirement for naval aviators to hold aviation commands was a result of the airship Shenandoah's crash in 1925. Billy Mitchell had something to do with it, as he was friends with the skipper.
The Japanese and British had many non-aviator CV COs throughout the war, relying on their air staff. USUALLY it worked, though the imbecile bubblehead conning HMS Glorious should've been shot if he survived.
VT-8's Mk.13 Torpedoes
From Tom Wildenberg:
I have an unairbrushed photograph of a TBF dropping what appears to be an early Mk 13 torpedo showing the plywood box enclosing the tail fins that might be useful for John Mollison.
Editors Note: I have picture showing the plywood box around the fins of the torpedo. May be the same one. This photo labeled as being taken in 1942 would probably still be a field modification.
Opinion on Waldron's TBD Devastator Markings.
From John Mollison:
Attached is a quick sketch I made to help me answer the question about insignia placement on Waldron’s aircraft. I’d like yours…and all-things-considered, any other opinions. Just looking for as many educated answers as I can so I can make the best decision for the artwork.
Best regards,
John Mollison
Editors Note: The top drawing is accurate. The Red meatball had been painted out of the underside of the wing insignia by Midway. In fact it had been mandated that they be painted out shortly after Coral Sea due to the ship gunners identifying any aircraft with a red roundel as Japanese. The only reason some of the film and photos show the red meatball on the bottom insignia only is because with the folding wings they couldn't be painted out in the hanger as there was no room above the folded wings so they had to be taken to the flight deck to be repainted and it was done a little later but still before Midway. Here is a discussion on the RoundTable in 2010:
http://www.midway42.org/Backissues/2010/2010-38.htm
http://www.midway42.org/Backissues/2010/2010-39.htm
http://www.midway42.org/Backissues/2010/2010-40.htm
I also think the A/C # forward of the insignia may have been on other aircraft in the squadron at other times and/or repainted on some or all when they painted out the red meatballs from the other roundels. Most photos of Waldron's T-16 and Gay's T-14 show the roundel in front of the A/C #.
There is also a very good model of Waldron's aircraft done in 2013 that seems to be as good a representation as it gets. I compared the model to any film and photos I could find and if there is an error it's slight or one I overlooked.
http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/usn/lyletbd.htm
From John Mollison:
I’m pretty immersed in the Waldron story and would benefit from all-things-Midway. I have to confess that I don’t know as much about this crucial battle as I should…but thanks to you, this deficit is being corrected.
Best regards,
John Mollison
Editors Note: John Mollison does a lot of artwork for aircraft and is quite good. Make sure you check out the website and if you have any information that might help getting Waldron's Devastator as historically accurate as possible please send a note.
http://www.oldguysandtheirairplanes.com/
Waldron's Navy Cross
From John Mollison:
Attached is a photo you might find interesting - I took it last week at the Naval Air Museum. It’s Waldron’s Navy Cross…and I had to put my journal in there to prove that it was me.
VMF-221 at Midway
From Rogelio C Rodriguez:
I have been searching for a VMF-221 Pilot or Group photo(s) when stationed at Midway. Any leads would be realty appreciated.
Thank you.
Editors Note: I have searched my library for any picture of the pilots when they were stationed at Midway before the battle. The only photo I found was a photo of the survivors back at Pearl Harbor after the battle taken in late June or early July. If anyone knows if a photo was taken and is available that would be great. Please pass it on.
6th Defense Bn. 7" Guns
From Chuck Wohlrab:
On the Tully's Port Discussion Board the topic of the 7" guns deployed to Midway came up. Some of the folks in the discussion maintain the guns were not mounted in time for the battle on 4 June. According to Heinl's Marines at Midway, the material for the guns arrived in USS Wright on Christmas Eve 1941. The Commanders of Batteries A and B (5") were tasked to emplace the guns on Eastern and Sand Islands.
Can anyone confirm that the guns were actually emplaced? It doesn't seem possible that the guns would arrive in Dec. '41 and not be emplaced by June of the following year. Any help in this discussion would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chuck Wohlrab
The Conquering Tide
From Ron Russell:
Thom, I would like to follow up your brief review of Roundtable member Ian Toll’s new book,
The Conquering Tide, with my own enthusiastic endorsement. First, in the spirit of full disclosure, I do a lot of manuscript editing for Ian, including on this one. However, I do that with a spirit of independence; occasionally even suggesting to an author that he should consider some other target for his energies. So I believe there’s no conflict of interest.
That said, Ian is in rare company, among the very best naval history writers you’ll find. I’ve edited the works of numerous authors and always welcome Ian’s latest manuscript because there’s very little to do. He composes with near-flawless perfection and researches his topic to such a degree that a nitpicker like me has to strain to find some small factual detail that doesn’t look right. That rarely happens.
As you mentioned,
The Conquering Tide is technically beyond our scope, commencing after the BOM. But that’s a narrow view--the book is actually volume 2 of a three-volume set that really should be considered as a whole. Volume 1 (
Pacific Crucible, reviewed in depth in the Roundtable’s archives) takes the reader from the causes of the Pacific War through the BOM, and all of the accolades awarded that book apply equally to Volume 2. There are abundant descriptions of its content on Amazon and elsewhere, so I won’t take up any more space and repeat it here. Just be aware that
The Conquering Tide should find a spot on the bookshelf of anyone with a Pacific War focus, especially if
Pacific Crucible is already there.
Editors Note: Thanks very much for your comments. Very much appreciated.
HYPO Veterans?
From Barrett Tillman:
Gents: This request comes from my friend & colleague Marty Morgan, frequent documentary narrator and history PhD candidate.
Thanx
Barrett
Do you know of any veterans still alive who served at HYPO during WW2? We're looking for somebody for a TV show. I am sure nobody who was at HYPO during the Midway time period remains alive today, but maybe somebody who served later in the war is still around. Any help would be appreciated.
MM
Editors Note: If anyone has info can send the info to me and I'll forward it on to Mr. Morgan.
John Waldron's TBD
From John Mollison:
Editors Note: Mr. Mollison was commissioned to do artwork of John Waldron's TBD. After a few emails and some discussion on various details from several people involved this is the final piece which he has graciously sent to me to use on the RoundTable. We have some very talented artist on the RoundTable and I would like to start a section called Artwork of Midway or something to that effect for visitors of the website to enjoy. All artwork included on the page will have permission from the artist of course. So anyone that has art that you'd like to display by all means send it to me and I'll post it on the new page.
Editors Note: For more information on Mr. Mollison's work check out the following websites.
http://www.oldguysandtheirairplanes.com/
http://www.johnmollison.com/
Mr. Mollison also has some future works that RoundTable members might find interesting. Tune in to watch the next episode of Old Guys and their Airplanes on Veterans Day, November 11th at 10pm on Public Broadcasting. Here is a note I received from Mr. Mollison.
From John Mollison:
The premier of our next episode will be in Sioux Falls on November 11. Trailer here:
https://vimeo.com/140264795
The story will air on Public Broadcasting at 10pm that night and 10:30pm on our
www.oldguysandtheirairplanes.com
website. As will another documentary on a WWII POW (of the Japanese).
And I will keep you up on the progress for producing an episode of Old Guys and Their Airplanes for Waldron, too. Once it gets off the ground, it will bring the Midway story a new audience and it’d be cool to have the RoundTable involved.