The Battle of Midway Roundtable Opening Remarks
Welcome to the Battle of Midway RoundTable December 2020 newsletter. Yes I am a little early but this is necessary to give everyone time to read the newsletter. As I explained earlier I have to move the web site to another Host provider. The current one I have used since 2013 to host the site is no longer supporting anything other than webpress web pages (I guess) so will effectively not be able to provide service for our site after December 31st, 2020. They did offer to continue hosting the site if I would redo all our pages and history. But not really an option, as far as I'm concerned, as we would lose all the internet SEO we have built up over the years. I may be able to move the site in short order after the 1st but as in all operations nothing really works as planned. So I expect some delays due to the fact I have to work with a new provider and it may take some time after the new year till the new site is up and running.
So bottom line. If you want to read the newsletter do so before January 1st, 2021.
On another topic. My opening remarks about Pearl Harbor brought out a few comments. Really did not expect any responses. But they were welcome and interesting. Thank you so much to those that wrote back.
We also have an interesting note and pictures on the restoration of a Yorktown SBD-2 that flew at Coral Sea, HAG, Japanese scouting on the morning of the 4th, as well as some more information on Ellwood Quayle Lindsay.
As 2020 comes to a close I hope everyone is doing well and we have many interesting discussions in 2021.
As always, enjoy.
Pearl Harbor
Editors Note: Mr. Wohlrab offers additional information about the Pearl Harbor attack from my opening remarks last month. While the subject of the Attack on Pearl Harbor is not quite Battle of Midway related the one failure of the attack was missing the US carriers so is nonetheless somewhat important to the events that occurred 7 months later.
From Chuck Wohlrab December 8, 2020
I received his month’s BOMRT Newsletter and greatly enjoyed it, as always. Thank you. I did find your opening comments interesting and would offer a bit of a different view.
My opinion is mostly based on two books, Tully and Parshall’s Shattered Sword and Alan Zimm’s excellent work, Attack on Pearl Harbor, Strategy, Combat, Myths and Deceptions. One cannot address the Battle of Midway without, at least in part, addressing the Attack on Pearl Harbor to set the context for the battle.
Mr. Zimm’s book addresses the operational plan for the attack on Pearl, evaluating what targets were sought. Admiral Yamamoto’s goal was to prevent the US Pacific Fleet from interfering with Japanese operations for at least six months. The Japanese were aware of the US War Plan Orange, with its move to relieve the Philippines and put an end to the war. While the US had 17 battleships total, the Japanese were cognizant of the fact that 8 were committed to operations in the Atlantic, and that not all could be stripped away to support operations in the Pacific. With the Japanese facing 9 battleships (roughly parity with the Japanese 10 at that point) Yamamoto sought to neutralize at least two in the Pearl Harbor attack. Zimm makes the case that the battleships, and not the carriers were the primary target. By sinking or severely damaging at least two US battleships this would give the Japanese an immediate numerical advantage and prevent the USN from implementing War Plan Orange.
This is not to say that any US carriers in port were not an important target. Yamamoto was also cognizant of the fact that the US had only three carriers in the Pacific, and he felt if he could destroy any in harbor that would be important. Genda and the airmen of the Kido Butai wanted to get the carriers, probably because they better understood the carriers were a bigger threat in the long run. It was important enough that the dive bomber pilots of the second wave were told that any carriers would be a priority and to bomb them to scrap.
Shattered Sword and Attack on Pearl Harbor both address the problems with taking comments by Mitsuo Fuchida at face value. Zimm, in particular, thinks that the mythical Third Wave, was never seriously consideration. Both Commander (later Lieutenant General of the Air Self Defense Force) Genda and Admiral Kusaka are on record that there was never a serious plan for a third wave. In fact, Fuchida initially told investigators of the USSBS that there was no plan, but seemed to change his story later because they kept bringing it up. Zimm also conducts an analysis of what it would take for a third wave to do serious damage to the oil farms and repair facilities and demonstrates that the Kido Butai lacked both the aircraft and ordnance in the numbers necessary to inflict significant damage to those targets. Additionally, the loss of aircraft and crews to a now fully alerted defense force would have been very significant. Plainly it was never a serious consideration.
I guess this is a bit long-winded, and a bit off-topic for the BOMRT. If you choose not to include it I understand. I just wanted to express my impressions of the Attack on Pearl and some facets of which I think are different from what is conventionally “known.”
V/r,
Chuck Wohlrab
From Johan Lupander December 13, 2020
Regarding the objective of the Pearl Harbor attack, I have understood that the japanese fear of an USN battlefleet advance to engage the IJN fleet in the Philippines area has been considered exaggerated as the logistic preparations were insufficient for such a major USN operation in near-time. The same thing goes for the USAAC planes on Hawaii.
Thank you and Merry Christmas!
Johan Lupander
Editors Note: While that may well be true from an American perspective, i.e. they knew it would be difficult if not impossible, it is doubtful the Japanese had a similar view. Otherwise if they knew the US could not interfere with their battle fleet in the Philippines there would be no reason to attack the US fleet in the first place.
From Dave Anderer December 17, 2020
The November issue of the included a number of comments about the Pearl Harbor operation. I’d like to discuss those briefly - hopefully this isn’t too off-topic for the roundtable.
I’ve never been quite comfortable with the notion that not attacking the fuel tanks or repair facilities was a mistake on the Japanese part. A review of European bomber offensive tells us a LOT of weight is necessary to impact industrial facilities. Much more than could be delivered by one or even two additional attack waves.
A few years ago I came across a book that I was really impressed with: The Attack on Pearl Harbor: Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions by Alan Zimm. It makes the case that doing significant damage to the repair facilities wasn’t likely, and damage to the fuel farm could have been compensated for.
Further he argues that Yamamoto wasn’t as carrier-minded as regards Pearl Harbor targets as most of us think today. There were multiple (apparently conflicting) op orders generated. Some specified a target priority of battleships first and then carriers.
There are a couple points here: First, to bring this book to folks attention. Second, to note that much like Midway, there is a lot of common knowledge and hindsight about Pearl that doesn’t stand up to closer examination.
Kalamazoo Air Zoo SBD-2 restoration
From John Seward
December 10, 2020
The following are a few images of the restoration of an SBD-2P that was aboard Yorktown at Coral Sea. The plane was retrieved from Lake Michigan and sent to us for restoration, after which it will be sent to the museum at Pearl Harbor for permanent display. At this moment, due to the current pandemic, the process has been slowed due to restrictions on the number of people allowed in the area. The Air Zoo is taking care of these valuable volunteers, and is serious about observing protocols.
At this point, the wings have been painted, and the dive flaps are in the process of being reattached. Work on the canopies is progressing nicely. I was privileged to be able to work on the pilot’s map table, which was a real honor.
For those who may be interested.
Japanese Scouting on the Morning of June 4th
From Berdj Anastassian December 15, 2020
Can you help me with something?
It is about the 7 plane scouting effort launched in the morning of the 4th.
Kido Butai launched the Midway attack force at appr. 240NM and kept steaming at 24kts on a heading of 135° towards Midway. (are these figures correct?)
Was it the plan to keep this speed and heading until the scouts came back? (after 5,5hr flight)
At what point were the scout planes supposed to rejoin to be recuperated by Kido Butai? I am trying to figure out the intended return legs of the 7 scout planes. In many sources I find the outbound and doglegs, but never anything about the inbound legs
Thank you
Berdj
Editors Note: The scouts would return to the point where the carriers would be so yes the plan was to continue to steam towards Midway after the attack on the island. The charts showing outbound legs with the turn are fairly widely published. The return legs were to fly over the area not covered by the outbound legs. The Japanese scouting plan has been the subject of some criticism for just that reason. If the US carriers were in between the two outbound legs then the sighting of the US fleet might be delayed considerably as the scout would be returning rather than outbound. The normal scouting would have more search aircraft deployed to fill in the vacant area's between the outboung legs, thus the entire search area would be covered in the outbound legs of the search.
As it was Tone #4 got off half hour late and did not fly the complete outbound distance. Instead it cut short the flight and turned north to complete the short leg before turning back. It was at this point that they found the US carriers ironically somewhat sooner than if they had gotten off in time and completed the entire outbound leg of the search pattern.
Interesting Prewar Movie
From Ron Russell December 11, 2020
"Fighting 8" in prewar movie
I just watched a pretty good naval aviation movie previously unknown to me, "Flight Command" starring Robert Taylor. This 1940 drama has the usual sappy story line about human relationships, but forget that--the film is a gem showing extensive aerial action of the for-real VF-6 playing the role of a fictitious "Fighting 8." The true stars of the film are the squadron's F3F biplanes, shown extensively in massed formation and maneuvers, plus close-ups during maintenance in the hangar. Vintage aircraft fans will love it.
Toward the end there are also some great scenes of flight deck ops on USS Enterprise, again with the F3Fs launching and landing in abundance. Of course, you can have a little fun catching the occasional script or visual goof, like one launch from the "Enterprise" that was clearly off Saratoga, or the "Fighting 8" skipper reporting his squadron's speed as 300 knots, far beyond the F3F's maximum. And in one of Hollywood's worst examples of miscasting, try to ignore Red Skelton as one of the squadron's jocks. On the other hand, Robert Taylor was perfect in the lead--he was actually a pilot himself and served as a Navy flight school instructor during the war.
I caught Flight Command on Turner Classic Movies, but it's also available on demand from various sources--Amazon Prime has it for a couple bucks. I'd pay it; the F3F and Enterprise scenes alone are worth it.
Ron Russell
Editors Note: I kind of remember that movie, barely. When I was growing up on the farm the small, and I do mean small town, nearby had a Monday night movie night outdoors. At least in the summer. The guy that travelled around to the small towns would show a lot of old movies I'm sure he didn't pay much for as he didn't charge admission but made his money off concessions. Coke and a bag of popcorn cost about .10 cents. Anyway I remember the planes and the carriers. Not much else.
Comments on back seaters
From Dan Brockman December 26, 2020
I commend you and your followers for continuing the search for pieces of the Midway puzzle. The visual aspect of research is often neglected but your work continues to uncover many interesting and valuable photos and artwork.
One comment on ship battle damage assessments. I was an intern in the Bureau of Ships in 1959. My friend at the next desk was happily employed in an ongoing study of the torpedo and bomb damages to the battleships of Pearl Harbor 18 years after they occurred. His work was to be used in the design of future ships. As sunken ships are extensively photographed I expect more study will be given to design flaws. The Bismark is a good example. My Michigan Classmate Bill Garzke is drawing conclusions using recent photos.
I am presently trying to add data to the genealogical profiles of the enlisted men who sat in the back of our attacking aircraft. I use www.geni.com . Officers like McClusky and Henderson are well represented in these family genealogy records but enlisted men are not. It's hard to find them. Usually their first names are abbreviated and their families are not mentioned in the common sources. Quiz your members on these last names: Chochalousek, Hobbs, Reininger, Keaney, Lindgren, Mushinski and many other backseaters. If you can add some family history information please do so after checking or correcting to see what is published already on Geni.com
Dan Brockman
ex Lt. USNR 1960-1964. Active duty, Naval Degaussing Station Norfolk.
Editors Note: Thank you for the note. I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Do you have the names of the rear seat men at Midway and are looking for more information on them or do you need the names. If you need the names I can provide you with a list.
Battle of Midway Committee
Editors Note: Last month Mr. Steven Moore asked for some help tracking down the Battle of Midway Committee. Mr. Ron Russell was kind enough to give some help. Likely the programs Mr. Moore is searching for might be hard to find but we will continue to look for them.
From Ron Russell December 8, 2020
Re the inquiry from Steven Moore in the November newsletter about a BOM committee, the online refs he saw may relate to the San Francisco BOM Commemoration Committee, on which I served as the veterans coordinator for several years. The committee was jointly sponsored by the local Naval Order and Navy League chapters, comprised primarily of retired Navy officers. Each year the group conducted a grand "dining out" in naval parlance, with a formal reception, banquet, and a major guest speaker at a fine hotel in downtown S.F. We always had several BOM vets as honored guests, and they were indeed the centerpiece of the event.
Sadly, the last of those vets answered his final muster some years ago, and the annual San Francisco commemoration began a gradual downsizing until it was no longer practical to hold it. But such events continue in other areas where the Navy maintains a strong presence, obviously including Washington, D.C., plus major bases like NAS Jacksonville and NavSta San Diego, held aboard the USS Midway CV-41 museum ship. In theory, every USN command celebrates the BOM anniversary every year, but most of them won't be as grand as what you'd find at one of those major locales.
For Mr. Moore, I'd suggest simply doing an Internet search for "Battle of Midway Anniversary" starting around the first of May. That should lead you to a contact on the organizing committee for any of several anniversary events, always held in the first week of June. Of course, a lot will depend on getting past the coronavirus threat by then, so keep your expectations modest. Good luck.
--Ron Russell
Ellwood Quayle Lindsay and the USS Saratoga
Editors Note: Some additional information provided this month. Still more to come when I get the time.
From Mike Jensen December 8, 2020
I saw you posted my original e-mail in the new November Newsletter. Thanks so much for your interest and help.
One interesting story is about the USS Saratoga. It was just returning to service after refitting and on the morning of December 7th she was in port at San Diego. Immediately after the attack there was a rush to get the carrier out into the Pacific. Part of those preparations included embarking VMF-221, which was stationed in San Diego, aboard the Saratoga to transport the planes and pilots to Hawaii. Then redirected to Wake Island and when that failed the Squadron was then transported to and stationed at Midway.
My guess is that VMF-221 was immediately called into action and sent to the Pacific and Ellwood and others were sent to Dallas to pick up planes and bring them back to NAS San Diego to beef up the ready supply of planes there. This seems like an interesting side story that tells a little of the immediate reaction to the beginning of the war and how fast decisions were being made.
At this time Ellwood was at NAS San Diego, attached to the Second Marine Aircraft Wing. It appears from his flight log the first time he flew in a Brewster Buffalo, F2A-2 was on 24 November 1941.
Again, I thank you so very much.
Mike Jensen
Announcements and Questions
Never Call Me A Hero
From Richard Douglass December 8, 2020
The book Never Call Me a Hero arrived today, and has already proved to be a great read. Very highly recommended. Dusty Kleiss showed his ability and work ethic at a young age and certainly deserved his appointment to the Naval Academy. His posting in VS-6 reminded me of the only Dauntless pilot I ever had the pleasure of knowing, who was also in VS-6, and certainly well known to Mr. Kleiss. That was Dale Hilton, who was shot down in the Marcus Island raid in March 1942 and spent the rest of the war in a Japanese prison camp. After the war, Mr. Hilton went on to command Patrol Squadron 4 (VP-4) in the late 1940s, and ended up, as I recall, being the last CO of CV-16 USS Lexington.
HAG Flight to Nowhere
From John Lucy December 27, 2020
Good Morning. I am meeting with a high school history teacher on this very subject. Seems Mighty Mitch owes the decendants of all those lost pilots a Mighty Apology. I can only hope his letters to those families were heartfelt and honest. This battle has been a passion of mine for 50 years. If you know of any of these letters or know of a book of reference please advise.
Yours Respectfully.
John Lucy.
Editors Note: I am pretty sure there is no published work containing the letters to the families of the men lost at Midway. Some might still be in family hands or possibly published in the local newspaper if the family released it. But a book containing any of them is highly unlikely.
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