The Battle of Midway Roundtable Opening Remarks
Welcome to the February Issue of the Battle of Midway RoundTable. Yes somewhat late but business is good so can't complain. Plus the Government gets fairly narrow minded if you don't file those corporate taxes by March 15th. Apologies for keeping you all waiting.
This month we have a follow up on a couple of discussions. We have additional information on the B-26 piloted by Captain Collins. It is more of a clarification of where the information came from and answers a couple of my questions. We also have some really good research following the article a while back on the Mark 13 Mod 0 torpedoes. This is a good read and answers some question about where and when they were expended and why there likely none left aboard Yorktown during the Battle of Midway. Less clear how many Enterprise had left and even less clear if any or all might have been replaced just before the battle.
So sit back, read, and enjoy.
Captain Collins' B-26 identified
Click here for last months article
15 February 2023 From William Longton Panama City, FL
I realized (perhaps a little bit late) that I never attached Tom Behrens' original email to me giving me the information regarding "Winsockie DGA" found in the book Sunsetters of the South Pacific. Unfortunately, the 6-pages he photocopied from the book and sent to me do not contain this specific information. So, I copied that part of his email to me and have attached it here. I apologize for any confusion.
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Hi Bill,
Sorry for the delay in responding.
If you ever get to the National Archives in Washington, DC, a copy of The Sunsetters of the South Pacific is on file there.
In that historical book, there is a reference to a B-26B assigned to the 69th BS referenced as having the name "Winsocki DGA." Assigned May 1942, out Feb 27, 1943. Not sure of the difference in name from your reference. Aircraft number there is referenced as 41-17589. Showing as being ferried out from California to Hawaii by 2nd Lt. Lloyd Whitley. Collins is showing as Crew Chief. Later transferred to the 70th BS when the 69th BS transitioned to B-25s.
I've attached an interesting account of Capt. Collins' attack on the Akagi, June 3-4, 1942 excerpted from that book. The reference to 559 in this account is to B-26B aircraft number 41-17559. No name for the aircraft is noted, however Collins is listed as Pilot and Dunn as crew chief. Assigned May 15, 1942, out June 4, 1942.
Editors Note: Thanks for the update. So the name of the B-26 was was Winsocki DGA with tail number 41-17559?
16 February 2023
From William Longton
Panama City, FL
Capt Collins flew in "Winsockie DGA" from Patterson Field, Ohio to Hamilton Field, California as the Crew Chief in Lt Whitley's plane (tail #41-17589) according to Tom Behren's account in SUNDOWNERS. After arriving in California, he was given his ship #41-17559 that he flew to Hickam Field, Hawaii. This ship had no nickname. It is the same one that he flew at Midway, and was shot to pieces. Again, this is *all* according to SUNDOWNERS, but we have absolutely no contradicting evidence, none that I have managed to find anyway. It can get confusing at times, I know but I hope I have straightened it out.
Also, I forwarded the link to the RT to Tom Behrens so that he may see his book was given the proper credit it deserves here. Personally, I *WISH* I could lay hold of his book for just an afternoon.
Bill
Editors Note: Thanks. I was a bit confused. I didn't want to post anything that was incorrect. This clears it up nicely. I have alway had a soft spot for these B-26 crewmen after reading The Ragged Rugged Warriors way back in High School or maybe or slightly before. The chapter I think called 'The Other Midway' or something like that was devoted to these 4 B-26's and their crew that made it to Midway and attacked the Japanese fleet. That story and a bit of other research prompted me to make one B-26 counter, along with others like the B-17's, Vindicators, etc. that were stationed on Midway for the Avalon Hill game Midway that we played constantly.
17 February 2023 From William Longton Panama City, FL
Wow, that is incredible because I read the *EXACT* same book in High School! In fact, I managed to get hold of a first edition, and I have it in my library of books. Yes, "The Other Midway" is the name of that chapter, and it gives such vivid deacriptions of what took place inside of Lt Muri's B-26, as well as the 6TBF's from VT-8 that I just had to learn more about the battle.
I never made a B-26 counter for my Avalon Hill Midway game. However, I took that game, found the Avalon Hill supplimental pieces offered for the Coral Sea battle and combined them ALL into the later game they came out with called "Flat Top". With just a couple of additional ship counters that I made, I now have the entire 1941-1942 US and IJ Navies to stage a battle for the Guadalcanal operation as though Pearl Harbor never happened. "Flat Top" includes all of the aircraft used by both sides during the early part of the war....and that includes B-26's, B-17's, PBY's, Vindicators, Emily's, Mavis's, Petes, Daves, etc. When fully combined, one has the Pacific War campaign in its entirety at your disposal. My son and I have played it a few times, and BOY is it involved! Totally worth it though. I am mildly surprised to hear that someone else besides me actually played "Midway".
BTW: I keep saying "Sundowners" when I reference Tom Behren's book and it actually is Sunsetters of the South Pacific
Editors Note: We also played "Flat Top" quite a few times. I think I related it before but I set up a number of "Flat Top" games as a referee where the two sides were in different rooms or different houses or buildings. We had at times several local military personal as well as some history professors participate in the games on occasion. One thing that became apparent was that players who had been in a game before and understood the tactics involved always prevailed.
The article appeared in last months newsletter. You can read it
here.
20 February 2023 From Sam Silberstein Staten Island, NY
A very big Thank-you for this month's issue with the story of Captain Collins' B-26. I am always amazed at the depth of knowledge of and the efforts to obtain new information by BoMRT members!
Best Regards,
SAM
PBYs
22 February 2023 From Howard Ady III Nevada
A nice recap of the start of the battle of Midway in this great Smithsonian Mag article.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/legends-of-an-ocean-crossing-seaplane-180971743/
PBYs assigned to U.S. Navy squadron VP-52 were painted black to camouflage their nighttime missions: stalking Japanese vessels in the Pacific.
Through a brief break in heavy clouds at 5:30 a.m. on June 4, 1942, Navy pilot Lieutenant Howard Ady, at the helm of a Pacific-based Catalina, caught a fleeting glimpse of trouble. His first report back to the admirals at Midway Island, tapped out in code by his radioman, was a single word: “Aircraft.” Within minutes of receiving the message, the siren at the U.S. airbase on Midway began wailing. Ady was near the end of his daily, 700-mile search, and still no ships. The approaching Japanese carrier strike force—“Our most important objective,” Admiral Chester Nimitz had described it—continued to elude the seaplanes by then known as the “eyes of the fleet.”
Ady wove the Catalina through cloud cover, searching for another patch of clear sky. At 5:52 a.m., he broke into sunlight and changed the course of World War II with one encoded sentence: “Two carriers and main body ships, carriers in front, course 135 speed 25.”
The early warning provided by Ady and his crew enabled Navy, Marine, and Army Air Force aircraft based on Midway Island to scramble before the strike occurred, avoiding a repeat of Pearl Harbor. Torpedo boats deployed into the lagoon and anti-aircraft defenses were readied. The Japanese strategy to inflict a final decisive blow on U.S. forces quickly collapsed.
A long slog across the Pacific to Japan still remained, but on that day, momentum tipped. In a 1942 NBC radio interview, Ady described the view from his Catalina cockpit that morning: “It was like watching a curtain rise on the biggest show of our lives. Two carriers, two battleships, cruisers, destroyers. A magnificent sight! We slipped back into the cumulus clouds and throttled down.”
PBY Restoration
Mark 13 Torpedo
Re:
THE MK13 TORPEDO AT CORAL SEA AND MIDWAY
17 February 2023 From Tom Rychlik
Another very good issue. Thomas Wildenberg’s email on the Mk13s was very insightful. He said the Navy acquired 156 of the Mod 0’s in 1938, enough for two loads for the 18 torpedo bombers on each of their 4 big carriers. The math says that is 144 torpedoes so there were 12 others distributed elsewhere. In 1938 we had the Langley, Lexington, Saratoga, Ranger, Yorktown and Enterprise. Langley was probably no longer considered a carrier. I know Wasp was initially built without the ability to store torpedoes, that’s why she only had a couple TBDs at that point. They fixed that problem just before she departed for the Pacific in 1942. I don’t know about Ranger. So that leaves the other four, to be the big torpedo capable aircraft carriers. My expectation is that due to cost and a peacetime Navy, they didn’t expend many, or even any of those, before the war. Probably just practice versions. It sounds like they had precious few of those too! I have never seen After Action reports for carrier
raids during the first several months of the war. They might have had torpedo expenditure reports. Not many of the raids uncovered Japanese vessels but VT-6 expended nine torpedoes when Enterprise raided Kwajalein. Massey got a DFC for one hit. The First Team says the attackers damaged a light cruiser, a submarine, and seven other ships. Lundstrom isn’t specific to say all were hit by torpedoes as there were SBDs and bomb equipped TBDs also in the mix. Enterprise should have had 27 more Mod 0s left. Neither of Captain Murray’s reports on Midway name the version of MK13’s used at Midway. In my research I haven’t found any literature on how straight and true the 5 torpedoes VT-6 fired at Midway. The misses were ascribed to adroit shiphandling and bad angles of attack. If they were all Mod 0’s that would account for 14 more. Enterprise would have had 13 Mod 0’s left if they used the Mod 0’s before the Mod 1’s.
Here is a key point. In Captain Buckmaster’s AA for Coral Sea written 5/25/42 he says on page 27: “In recent operations against enemy forces, VT-5 has had occasion to drop 41 torpedoes; of these, 32 were Mark 13, and 9 were Mark 13 Mod 1. All the Mark 13 Mod 1 made erratic runs.” I wonder if that information ever got to Captain Murray before Midway? If it didn’t, that’s on the senior leadership of the Pacific Fleet.
So according to Buckmaster in the first 6 months of the war Yorktown had conducted 41 TBD torpedo launches. VT-5 expended their first 12 torpedoes of the war on the morning of May 4 at Tulagi, only getting one hit. Apparently most, if not all the ships were stationary; trying to get underway, a perfect set up for the torpedo planes. However, many of the torpedoes were faulty and went under their targets and hit the beach on the other side. Later that day 11 more TBDs attacked the moving Okinoshima but failed to get a hit. Lieutenant Ewoldt’s torpedo hung up. He went around for a re-attack while the rest of the squadron departed. On his re-attack he missed too because of depth settings. He never made it back to the Yorktown, although he and his crew were eventually rescued. On May 7 VT-5 launched 10 TBDs that attacked the Shoho. From the diagram in Thomas’ article seven torpedoes from two squadrons hit the Shoho, not a bad percentage, although you have to wonder if some of the torpedo
“hits” were actually close bomb misses. The Shoho’s crew was probably pretty overwhelmed by all the explosions to really know the difference. The First Team says VT-2 claimed 9 hits and got 5 due to their successful anvil attack against a slower, less maneuverable, Shoho. VT-5 attacked second against an already damaged Shoho’s starboard bow, claiming 10 of 10 hits. Maybe both squadrons got all the hits they claimed but the other torpedoes that “hit,” didn’t explode.
On May 8th nine VT-5 TBDs attacked the Shokaku getting no hits. This could be because they released their torpedoes at ranges of 1000 to 2000 yards and from only the port side instead of an anvil, and the speedy Shokaku easily evaded the slower torpedoes. Or it could be because some or many of them were Mod 1’s and malfunctioned. So if Yorktown only carried its initial 36 Mod 0s and a few Mod 1s, it’s reasonable to think VT-5 used up a good percentage of the older Mod 0 torpedoes. No one knows how many total torpedoes Yorktown carried at this point but by my count that is 42 and not 41 torpedoes. When he wrote his Coral Sea After action Buckmaster wouldn’t have known Ewoldt had conducted a reattack. He probably assumed he was shot down before he made his second run. So that possibly explains the one torpedo difference. None of the other books I have on Yorktown’s wartime service account for the missing torpedo other than the Ewoldt story in Rendezvous and Midway. It’s a good bet
Yorktown had to get resupplied when she pulled into Pearl Harbor for repairs and its even a better bet that the ones they got were all Mod 1s. That explains the erratic runs made by the final five VT-3 torpedoes at Midway.
VT-2 used 13 on their Lae-Salamaua raid. One torpedo put the Yokahama Maruon the mud of the harbor bottom. The other 12 ran too deep or otherwise malfunctioned. 12 more were expended on Shoho. 11 more were expended on the Shokaku (no hits). That’s 36. The rest of Lexington’s torpedoes went to the bottom when she was sunk.
Hornet would only have had Mod 1s at Midway.
Editors Note: According to my research the Navy never requested any further Mark 13 Mod 0 than the original number. The 12 additional torpedoes were designated as spares although where they went and how they were used I have yet to find any info. Likely they were at some naval base and possibly at San Diego or Hawaii when the war started. It is also entirely possible some were used as practice torpedoes although from what I have read the only difference was they replaced the warhead with water when used in a practice drop so as to be able to reuse the torpedo.
Battle of the Coral Sea
March 12 2023 From Marvin Hult
I was reading about the movie project on the website about the Charge of the Devastators. I really like that idea, and hopefully, three aviators will be mentioned that should be. A. Walt Winchell and Doug Cossit. Being adrift for 17 days, by far the longest of any aircrew, they deserve it. Also, Chief Machinist Stephen Smith in his Scat Cat, making it back despite being shot to pieces. Stories about his plane being blessed, having nine lives, or some such, even before Midway. If I made a movie about the TBDs at Midway, they'd be my main characters.
I love the website and am not one to go around looking closely for errors, but one did appear in my reading today.
Actually, it was on
http://www.cv6.org/1942/midway/midway_3.htm
so maybe you do not have control over it. Part way down the page it says: Yorktown's Torpedo Three, despite the benefit of a small fighter escort led by LCDR Thach, suffered similarly. Only one plane of VT-3's twelve ever returned to Task Force 17; too damaged to land, it ditched near the task force. The pilot was picked up later by destroyer Hammann; the gunner died of wounds before then.
We know two TBDs from VT-3 made it back because the one piloted by Harry Corl with Lloyd Childers as his rear seater did, and Lloyd obviously survived. Your website indicates, I think, two VT-3 TBDs made it back to our carriers but had to ditch. On midway42.org you say it correctly. So, whoever does the website cv6.org made the error.
Anyway, the Coral Sea Battle is very overlooked. Other than John J Powers we never hear much about any pilots who scored bomb or torpedo hits in the battle. They should make a movie with the central characters being "Swede" Vejtasa and Walter Schindler. Apparently, Swede got one of the Shoho hits, then flew CAP duriung the climactic part of the battle. That could be really interesting too. That idea crossed my mind when reading about the Midway TBD movie.
Folks should remember this battle on a par with Midway because wthout the outcome there, Midway could have been totally different. What do you think of such a movie?
Also, something I do not fully understand, in a case like with Powers where he flew so low his plane was destroyed by his own bomb hit and he rightfully was awarded a postumous Medal of Honor. Why shouldn't his rear seat gunner also be awarded the same thing? Reading the citation it was as if he wasn't even there and Powers was in the plane all alone.
Best Regards
Marvin Hult
12 March 2023 From Ron Russell
I'll CC this to the Roundtable's webmaster for possible use in an upcoming Midway newsletter. All good points re Coral Sea. Yes, the CV6 website is totally separate from the Midway Roundtable; I think they may predate it. I've found it very useful over the years as a resource. A minor factual glitch in this case, but that's just one guy writing one narrative about one topic that doesn't even directly relate to CV6, so I'd let it pass. A great site otherwise.
--Ron
Announcements and Questions
Classified Report
28 February 2023 From Jack Tipton
I am glad to have joined the Roundtable last year, and look forward to your monthly updates. And I must tell you how smooth and effective your website operates; a real pleasure to utilize!
I have an inquiry for the Roundtable. In John B. Lundstrom’s excellent command study of Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher, Black Shoe Carrier Admiral, the author mentions Commander Michael B. Laing, the Royal Navy liaison officer assigned to Admiral Fletcher’s staff just prior to departing for Midway. Commander Laing wrote a report based on his observations that was so critical of the U.S. Navy operations during the battle that the report remains classified by the British to this day (Note 28 on page 571 is the reference). Does anyone know if that report remains classified or what it might say?
Thank you, and keep up the good work!
Jack Tipton
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