The Battle of Midway Roundtable Opening Remarks



Welcome to the March issue of the Battle of Midway RoundTable.  This month we have a discussion on the Mark 13 torpedo and its modifications.  There is also a link to a pamphlet with probably more than you ever wanted to know about the torpedo.  It is quite extensive and a long read if you want to slug through it all.  Somewhat worthwhile if you want to know the workings of the beast.  It doesn't address the issues with the torpedo but does go through a lot of the developments and modifications.  It was written as a service manual so more technical than a history.

We also have an interesting observation about how the carriers first used CO2 to purge fuel lines, when the twin 30's were first used on the SBD's, and more.

Hope everyone is doing well.  Until next time.

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War And Remembrance

20 March 2023
From: Tom Rychlik

I do not remember exactly when I first read Herman Wouk’s The Winds of War and War and Remembrance but it would have been before I made them mandatory reading for my fiancé and later wife, in 1980. It’s clear Wouk had done his research into the history he placed his fictional characters into. On page 291 he has Warren Henry visiting his battered friend Eugene Lindsey in the VT6 ready room on the morning of June 4th, instead of the real life exchange between Lindsey and Lieutenant Riley at breakfast in the presence of Wade McClusky. Seeing how battered Lindsey was Henry asks him whether “Doc Holiwell had shaken him loose” to fly that day. Lindsey responds with basically his answer to Riley: “I’ve trained for this… I’m leading the squadron in.” I wonder if there was a Doctor by the name of Holiwell actually on the USS Enterprise?

When the loudspeaker announces “Pilots, man your planes.” Wouk says “glancing at each other and at the pallid squadron commander, the pilots of Torpron Six got out of their chairs. Their movements were heavy, not eager, but they moved. So alike were the expressions of grave hard resolve on their faces, they might have been nineteen brothers.” Wouk then contrasts this behavior with the fliers of Scouting Six heading to their planes “shouting high-strung banter.”

I would love to know what eyewitness accounts Wouk used to write this. Dusty Kleiss hadn’t written his story about his emotional meeting with his friend and Classmate Tom Eversole that morning back in 1962-1978 when Wouk was writing his books. Although a fictional portrayal, Wouk’s story fits with a number of other stories on how the three torpedo squadron pilots were much more gravely worried than the dive bomber pilots due to their poorer aircraft and more treacherous mission profile. Yet every pilot that attacked Kido Butai that morning all got the same award, to include a battered Eugene Lindsey, who should have been grounded by a flight surgeon, McClusky, or Murray. After the battle the least Murray should have done was to nominate Lindsey for the Medal of Honor. Unless maybe Murray was concerned that such a nomination would have caused his seniors to ask questions about what the hell Lindsey was doing flying that day….

Wouk’s account of the mental gymnastics Nagumo was going through during the morning is pretty good and fits with what historians have recounted. The literature of the time has some serious defects as to the timing of the attacks from 0920 to 1030 and Wouk follows that. On page 310 Wouk states “What was not luck, but the soul of the United States of America in action, was this willingness of the torpedo plane squadrons to go in against hopeless odds. This was the extra ounce of martial weight that in a few decisive minutes tipped the balance of history.. So long as men choose to decide the turns of history with the slaughter of youths….the memory of these three American torpedo plane squadrons should not die.” He then lists the names and home towns of the crews of the three squadrons.

Tom Rychlik

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Editors Note:  When I was in college one of my professors father served on Enterprise as ships doctor.  I do not know if he was on board at Midway.  Recollection is that he was transferred to her just after the battle before the ship left for the South Pacific and Guadacanal.  At any rate back then I did not think to ask his exact service dates even though at the time I was researching the pacific war and Midway when I wasn't studying for exams and such.  Sometimes you have an opportunity and you let it slip by.  That was one of those times.

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Torpedoes at Coral Sea and Midway

Re: Mark 13 Torpedo from the last issue.

21 March 2023
From William Longton

I believe that the missing (12) Mark 13/Mod 0 are accounted for aboard the USS Ranger (CV-4) in the Atlantic. I have only seen Robert J. Cressman's book "USS Ranger CV-4 from Keel to Mast, 1934-1946" (ISBN:1574887203) once, but in it I am fairly certain he accounts for her torpedo squadron of 8 TBD's being armed with Mod 0's. The reason is that the Ranger up until Jan 1942 did not have a dedicated torpedo squadron since there was no stowage capacity for torpedos, but following a refit in late 1941, this was rectified and VT-4 went aboard with 8 Douglas TBD Devastators fitting out her torpedo squadron. Steve Ginter in his publication "Douglas TBD-1 Devastator" (ISBN: 094261271X) agrees on the number and Barrett Tillman in his book "TBD Devastator Units of the US Navy" (ISBN: 1841760250) has the number as high as 9. In any case, these torpedo planes needed to be armed so this is *probably* where the remaining Mod 0's went.

-Bill

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Editors note: That is a possibility but I found that the Mark 13 Mod 1 was first used by VT-6 in July 1941. They dropped 10 as a practice or test. One ran true, four sank and could not be recovered, and the other 5 had erratic runs. Despite this woeful performance it seems nothing was done to correct the problems and production continued. So by 1942 it is entirely possible Ranger was given all Mod 1's. But again nothing is certain.

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24 March 2023
From William Longton

Well that is news to me. I was of the understanding that actual torpedoes were not used during practice (I think Lundstrum, Barret or Stafford said so, but not certain of that at all), but instead were using hollow torpedo tubes filled with concrete during practice. I do know that the torpedo development facility in Newport, RI used actual torpedoes against targets, but without warheads so they could be recovered afterwards. The reason for this is because torpedoes were SO expensive that they couldn't afford to lose any, and Narragansett Bay is relatively shallow enabling them to be recovered.

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Mk0 vs Mk1 torpedo

24 March 2023
From William Longton

When Paul Allen discovered the location of the USS Lexington (CV-2) in the Coral Sea, one of the photos he got was of a unexploded torpedo in the area. It is not known if this came from the USS Phelps (DD-360) which scuttled the Lexington (missing it of course) or if it is a Mk 13/Mod 1 torpedo aerial torpedo that somehow escaped from the Lexingtons torpedo magazines when she sank. I read somewhere that the Mod 1, had the propellers placed BEHIND the dive control surfaces (as seen in picture below) whereas the Mod 0 had the two features reversed placing the propellers AHEAD of the dive control planes. The theory (and I stress the word "theory") goes that when the torpedo design technicians developed the Mod 1, that by reversing the two features it upset the delicate balance of the of the weapons gyroscopes which caused it to veer off course, broach or deep dive missing its target entirely. When its deficiencies were uncovered, the Naval Weapons Facility chalked it all up to "pilot error" instead of admitting that they had created a built in flaw. So, I put it out to the RT: is this a Mod 1 or a "miss" from the Phelps? Also, does anyone have any definitve information on the "theory"?

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Editors Note:  Here is a link to the manual on the Mark 13, Mark 13 Mod 1, and Mark 13 Mod 2.  Pretty much everything you wanted to know about the differences between the various models.

https://maritime.org/doc/torpedomk13/index.php

Below is an image from the pamphlet depicting the three different tail sections of the Mark 13.  From what I gather the change to the tail section was made because the powers that be wanted a faster torpedo and one with a longer range.  The tail section on the Mark 13 was the source of the drag, hindering both.  The tail section was quite robust as you can see so that is understandable.  By cutting down the source of the drag they did increase both speed and range.  But something went wrong.  I have read that the more robust and reinforced tail section protected the propellers on impact with the water.  The stabilizing cone aft of the propellers also connected and braced the tail structure as well as reduced vibration from the propellers  The tail section was also quite a bit heavier than the tail section on the Mod 1 or 2.  This moved the center of gravity further forward on the torpedo possibly contributing to the erratic or deep runs, i.e. sank in tests, as the torpedo could not recover depth after launch.  Water gets colder the deeper you go and denser as well.  I can't believe that they didn't recalibrate the torpedo gyro but there is nothing to suggest they did or didn't so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  Still something was not right after the modification with unfortunate results.

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Refueling lines filled with CO2

1 April 2023
From Christopher G. Larkin

When did the use of CO2 gas to refill drained gasoline refueling lines aboard Aircraft carriers become "standardized procedure"?

I've read that the Yorktown had adopted the procedure for refilling aircraft gasoline fueling lines with CO2 gas after the Battle of Coral Sea. I am most curious if Enterprise and Hornet had put this practice in place during the BOM, as well. Were we just singularly lucky that those carriers did not come under attack by the Japanese at the BOM, or were they also using the same procedure for gasoline line draining and refilling with CO2 gas as well? Had the procedure been standardized by the BOM, or if by when? I'd be very interested if this information can be provided.

Best regards,
Christopher G. Larkin

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Editors Note: I'll try and get more information about this.  But in brief someone onboard Yorktown during the Battle of Coral Sea or just after had an idea to purge all the fuel lines with CO2.  I believe this information was passed on to Enterprice and Hornet but I'm not sure they had anything in place by the time of the battle.  It certainly wasn't standard procedure by then but became so shortly thereafter.

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5 April 2023
From Christopher G. Larkin
 

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Editors Note:  I don't have any further information about whether Enterprise or Hornet used the CO2 gas to purge their fuel lines in any account.  However they never came under direct attack even though they were close to where Yorktown was attacked.  Still I seem to remember that the information was passed on when Yorktown returned to Pearl.  However since Enterprise and Hornet had departed the day before Yorktown arrived in Pearl hard telling if the information was passed on to them.  I can't find the article or reference in the book about the idea to purge the fuel lines.  I know either a junior officer or damage control officer about Yorktown thought of the idea and brought it up the chain aboard Yorktown and then it was passed on.  But I don't have the dates.  If I can locate the article I'll post it in a future issue.
 
 

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WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?   Follow up from the June 2022 issue here

18 February 2023
From Kent Walters

In reference to Ron Russell's reply to his observations about the painting:

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Kent, thanks for your 3 messages re the VB-3 Dauntless in the painting. I'll have a condensed version of them in the June newsletter. FWIW, my main observation was the dual .30 cal gun - should be a single gun for an ex-Saratoga SBD.

I also wondered about the black side number on the fuselage. VF-3 Wildcats had them in white, so I figured VB-3 would be the same. Best regards,

--Ron

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Ron,

Thanks! I agree a condensed version is needed if you are going to further use it. I was trying to make further quick comparisons in my 2nd and 3rd messages for Yorktown and Hornet aircraft beyond what I immediately knew about the USS Enterprise aircraft. As you know, I had done extensive investigations in documenting George Goldsmith's Dauntless aircraft for RC Scale competition. It is interesting what the significant differences were in markings between our three carriers at Midway when making these further comparisons as prompted by your question.

The dual .30 cal gun would normally be a single gun in SBDs during the BOM but I know there were some "field modifications" going on to start mounting dual guns on some of these Dauntless aircraft before the Douglas factory started including them. There is evidence George Goldsmith's aircraft (B15) on the Enterprise was one of them when closely examining side views where it appears they modified the rear part of the gunner's compartment and turtle deck to accommodate it. It would be difficult to know which aircraft would have been modified and if it was also starting to occur on other carriers for Dauntless aircraft leading into the BOM before they became standard equipment from Douglas.

Was this photo of any further interest? I had George Goldsmith sign this back in 1990. I believe he passed away in 1991. The 2nd attachment was a short note from George commenting about this photo on the USS Enterprise that he thought was during practice bombing (before the BOM).



Regards,
Kent

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Editors Note:  The image and the note are a little hard to read.  However the large image can be seen if you right click on the image and load it in another tab.

According to accounts Waldron went to Enterprise and talked them out of their spare twin 30's so he could have his TBD squadron outfitted with them.  So likely Enterprise had field modified all their SBD's with twin mounts by Midway.  Less certain about Hornet as it is unlikely Waldron would have had to go to Enterprise to ask for the extra mounts if Hornet had also field modified their SBD's.  Although it is possible Hornet didn't have any spares.

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